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David Oberman
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 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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leo86@my-deja.com wrote:
| Quote: | I've seen most of Ryan's work and never once remember a hammy moment. On
top of that, in one film he gave the single greatest performance I've ever
seen in my life.
Jim Beaver
Just for the record, I'm a big fan of Ryan's and I'm wondering which
film of his you're referring to. Do tell.
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Jim? You're not up yet, I guess. . . .
THE ICEMAN COMETH
____
I will wage war against destiny!
-- Beethoven |
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steve
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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On 17-Jul-2008, schultr@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
| Quote: | Roger Ebert (yeah, yeah, I know that mentioning his name will lose me lots
of points around here) pointed out a major difference between _Psycho_ and
_Friday the 13th_: in the former, the murders were filmed from the point
of view of the victim (and up to the point of the first one, the character
who gets it is basically the only character with whom we have any
identification at all up to that point), while in the latter, the murders
were filmed from the point of view of the murderer. So instead of the
horror of the victim, we are expected to feel the sick joy of the killer.
That, btw, is one of the reasons why I don't like _Frenzy_ all that much.
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This is a theory I cant accept. One can sympathize with a victim that we
see suffering, even if the camera takes the position of the killer. The
rape, strangulation scene in Frenzy (the hero's ex-wife) instills nothing
but horror and sympathy for the victim and certainly does not give me any
"sick joy" because the camera views the victim head on. Simply because the
camera shows us what the killer see's does not require us to stand in his
place emotionally. Our emotional reaction to the suffering is (should be,
anyway) quite different than his, even if we share a viewing angle. Seeing
what a killer sees does not make us killers.
As for the Ft13th style films, I think they are offensive because the killer
is both superhuman and reasonless. The murders bear little relation to
actual human experience and become exercises in pain and gore. In terms of
violence, they are pornographic. I doubt it would much matter if the camera
gave us the victims POV.
steve
--
"History is a lie agreed upon." --Napoleon |
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Frank R.A.J. Maloney
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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Richard Schultz wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1302bf30-20bf-4f53-a5e8-7aaf0f652d1b@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, leo86@my-deja.com wrote:
: Just for the record, Gershwin did the songs for AN AMERICAN IN PARIS,
Just for the record, Gershwin had been dead for about 15 years when _An
American in Paris_ was made. And much as I like Gene Kelly and Oscar Levant,
I find AAiP extremely hard to take, except for the scene where Oscar Levant
plays the Gershwin Piano Concerto.
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There's are several great moments to like in _An American in Paris_. The
ballet is brilliant with its evocations of French art. The "Our Love Is
Here To Stay" pas de deux on the banks of the Seine is one of the most
beautiful ever filmed; it's only real competition is Fred Astaire and
Cyd Charisse in Central Park in _The Band Wagon_.
Nina Foch got the best role of her career here. I love it when Kelly's
Jerry Mulligan is about to take out Foch's Milo:
Jerry Mulligan: That's... quite a dress you almost have on.
Milo Roberts: Thanks.
Jerry Mulligan: What holds it up?
Milo Roberts: Modesty.
Georges Guétary is a very interesting presence, too. It's rather a shame
he didn't click with the American audiences. I particularly like his
"I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise".
And of course, you're about the "Concerto in F", although I think it was
abridged for the film. The idea of having Levant play all the
instruments, lead the orchestra, and be the entire audience was
brilliant. And equally of course, Levant devoted his entire life to
promoting and preserving his late friend's legacy.
--
Frank in Seattle
____
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Millennium hand and shrimp." |
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Frank R.A.J. Maloney
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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Richard Schultz wrote:
| Quote: | In article <huqdnUoMFY3a9OPVnZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@posted.isomediainc>, Frank R.A.J. Maloney <frajm@blarg.net> wrote:
: I don't like Harrison, either, as a human being. He was definitely a
: poor excuse for a man and a unprincipled bounder when it came to women.
A bounder, or a bounder and a cad?
: But that said, he was a great actor. Look at his filmography: _Night
: Train to Munich_, _Major Barbara_, _Blithe Spirit_, _Anna and the King
: of Siam_, _The Ghost and Mrs. Muir_. Even his Julius Caesar
: (_Cleopatra_) and his Pope Julius II (_The Agony and the Ecstasy_) rise
: above the shortcomings of those vehicles. And then there's his late role
: as the aging homosexual with Richard Burton in _Staircase_.
I'm trying to find a logical explanation for your having left out _Unfaithfully
Yours_. Please tell me that it is not because you don't like Preston Sturges.
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No, I like most Sturges, probably more so than some here since I make a
point of watching _Remember the Night_ every Christmas season. I don't
even hate _Christmas in July_ or _The Sins of Harold Diddlebock_. I'd
rather not watch _The Beautiful Blonde from Bashful Bend_ despite the
presence of Betty Grable, but I wouldn't break out in hives if I were
hogtied and forced to watch it.
However, I've never seen _Unfaithfully Yours_ so I'll add it to my
Amazon wishlist.
--
Frank in Seattle
____
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Millennium hand and shrimp." |
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Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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Richard Schultz wrote:
| Quote: | In article <0u-dncEGsc9i7OPV4p2dnAA@rcn.net>, Bill Anderson <billanderson601@yahoo.com> wrote:
: Frank R.A.J. Maloney wrote:
: racism and its affects on two sets of lovers
:
: Seriously, don't give this a second thought, Frank. It's completely,
: solely, unquestionably the fault of Richard Schultz and the terrible
: example he has set.
At least I'll go down in history for having accomplished *something*.
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It took me overnight to understand the jab at you but finally it dawned
on me about 3 this morning that it's a reference to your espousal of the
proper use of the apostrophe, for which I say good for you.
To be fair, you've never given me any static over my various editing
sins, even when I leave a crucial "not" out of a sentence.
--
Frank in Seattle
____
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Millennium hand and shrimp." |
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Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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Okierazorbacker wrote:
| Quote: | On Jul 16, 5:24 pm, "Frank R.A.J. Maloney" <fr...@blarg.net> wrote:
Mo' bettah we meet at your choice -- An Irish pub? Italian? A real
kosher deli? A Chicago-style dog? I am open-minded.
Mongolian BBQ perhaps? I love Italian too, as well as Chinese.
Quizno's is good. I'm built like a teddy bear, so I'm not THAT
picky. 
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I think we could get together on Italian or Chinese. We have favorite
place in the Seattle Chinatown which features Mongolian hot pots. I am
particularly addicted to one with taro and duck in a savory brown sauce.
I'm built more like a grizzly bear who's just out of hibernation. Down
from 325 to 250 in seven months, heading for 225 even as we speak.
--
Frank in Seattle
____
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Millennium hand and shrimp." |
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Kingo Gondo
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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"Frank R.A.J. Maloney" <frajm@blarg.net> wrote in message
news:L_2dnWHYl98B7eLVnZ2dnUVZ_v7inZ2d@posted.isomediainc...
| Quote: | Richard Schultz wrote:
In article <huqdnUoMFY3a9OPVnZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@posted.isomediainc>, Frank
R.A.J. Maloney <frajm@blarg.net> wrote:
: I don't like Harrison, either, as a human being. He was definitely a :
poor excuse for a man and a unprincipled bounder when it came to women. A
bounder, or a bounder and a cad?
: But that said, he was a great actor. Look at his filmography: _Night :
Train to Munich_, _Major Barbara_, _Blithe Spirit_, _Anna and the King :
of Siam_, _The Ghost and Mrs. Muir_. Even his Julius Caesar :
(_Cleopatra_) and his Pope Julius II (_The Agony and the Ecstasy_) rise :
above the shortcomings of those vehicles. And then there's his late role
: as the aging homosexual with Richard Burton in _Staircase_.
I'm trying to find a logical explanation for your having left out
_Unfaithfully Yours_. Please tell me that it is not because you don't
like Preston Sturges.
No, I like most Sturges, probably more so than some here since I make a
point of watching _Remember the Night_ every Christmas season. I don't
even hate _Christmas in July_ or _The Sins of Harold Diddlebock_. I'd
rather not watch _The Beautiful Blonde from Bashful Bend_ despite the
presence of Betty Grable, but I wouldn't break out in hives if I were
hogtied and forced to watch it.
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Kinky.
| Quote: | However, I've never seen _Unfaithfully Yours_ so I'll add it to my Amazon
wishlist.
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Oh, it is quite good--any hogtying there will be quite optional indeed. |
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Kingo Gondo
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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"David Oberman" <doberman@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kmnu7457fv0iv40u9sijdgdukvca5bb05a@4ax.com...
| Quote: | leo86@my-deja.com wrote:
I've seen most of Ryan's work and never once remember a hammy moment. On
top of that, in one film he gave the single greatest performance I've
ever
seen in my life.
Jim Beaver
Just for the record, I'm a big fan of Ryan's and I'm wondering which
film of his you're referring to. Do tell.
Jim? You're not up yet, I guess. . . .
THE ICEMAN COMETH
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From prior Jim comments, I am sure that is the one.
It is pretty awesome. |
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Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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Richard Schultz wrote:
| Quote: | In article <L_2dnWHYl98B7eLVnZ2dnUVZ_v7inZ2d@posted.isomediainc>, Frank R.A.J. Maloney <frajm@blarg.net> wrote:
: However, I've never seen _Unfaithfully Yours_ so I'll add it to my
: Amazon wishlist.
One thing that I liked about _Unfaithfully Yours_ is that Rex Harrison did
a far better job of conducting (he actually followed the beat with gestures
that were more or less correct) than just about any other actor I can
think of.
After praising your command of the language in a previous post, I regret
that I have to remind you of what Strunk & White have to say about the
proper use of the word "however": it can only begin a sentence when it's
being used in the sense of "In whatever manner."
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I'll make a note.
I'm guilty of misusing "hopefully", too.
--
Frank in Seattle
____
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Millennium hand and shrimp." |
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Kingo Gondo
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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"Okierazorbacker" <okierazorbacker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:52b47ce4-68d9-4bdd-b11f-1e0efbb723a1@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 17, 11:45 am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
| Quote: |
Have you ever actually been to Paris? I am no Francophile, and one of
the things about _Is Paris Burning?_ (the book) that I found most annoying
was their referring to Paris as "the most beautiful city in the world"
(which
it is not) on every third page, but I've been there twice, and I did not
find the Parisians with whom I came in contact particularly hateful or
viciously snobbish.
But now I'm beginning to wonder -- were you the guy in Florence whom I saw
explaining to a clerk in a shoe store that the sign in the window that
said
"Super Flessible" was misspelled?
I have no desire to go to Paris, or most places in Europe. If I did |
go there, I'd start with Italy, primarily because of the food. Not
that I hate French food, just don't prefer it. Actually I'd start off
the continent, in Scotland, with a round of golf at St. Andrews. My
dislike of the French comes second-hand but is comprehensive; art,
politics, experience of friends, etc.
I'm not fond of cities in general. Our recent vacation took in four
national parks (Yellowstone, Tetons, Yosemite, Grand Canyon) and three
rounds of golf (Nevada, Pebble Beach, New Mexico---have played in 27
of our 50 states now, hope to eventually get to all 50). I'd rather
enjoy the great outdoors than look at some 300-year-old buildings,
although certain of those would be of interest. I intend for example
to always scrupulously avoid NYC, LA, and Vegas. We do look forward
someday to visiting DC, however, and a return trip to Montreal would
be nice someday.
Reply:
Really? Avoid NYC?
And San Francisco? And Chicago? And Seattle? And Toronto? And Vancouver?
(Just to limit ourselves to North America)
This is not flattering to you, sir. |
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Derek Janssen
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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Kingo Gondo wrote:
| Quote: | "Frank R.A.J. Maloney" <frajm@blarg.net> wrote in message
news:L_2dnWHYl98B7eLVnZ2dnUVZ_v7inZ2d@posted.isomediainc...
However, I've never seen _Unfaithfully Yours_ so I'll add it to my Amazon
wishlist.
Oh, it is quite good--any hogtying there will be quite optional indeed.
|
"Have you ever heard of Russian Roulette?"
"Why, yes, I used to play it with my father all the time."
"I find that hard to believe."
"That's the one where you play with the two decks of cards, and...?"
"No, that's Russian BANK. Russian Roulette is a very different game,
which I can only wish your father had played continuously before he had
you."
Derek Janssen (get hooked on genuine Preston Sturges, and you'll learn
to hate the Coen Bros.)
ejanss1@verizon.net |
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Kingo Gondo
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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"Derek Janssen" <ejanss1@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ENLfk.404$av4.319@trnddc04...
| Quote: | Kingo Gondo wrote:
"Frank R.A.J. Maloney" <frajm@blarg.net> wrote in message
news:L_2dnWHYl98B7eLVnZ2dnUVZ_v7inZ2d@posted.isomediainc...
However, I've never seen _Unfaithfully Yours_ so I'll add it to my Amazon
wishlist.
Oh, it is quite good--any hogtying there will be quite optional indeed.
"Have you ever heard of Russian Roulette?"
"Why, yes, I used to play it with my father all the time."
"I find that hard to believe."
"That's the one where you play with the two decks of cards, and...?"
"No, that's Russian BANK. Russian Roulette is a very different game,
which I can only wish your father had played continuously before he had
you."
Derek Janssen (get hooked on genuine Preston Sturges, and you'll learn to
hate the Coen Bros.)
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I don't hate the Coen Bros., but anyone who puts them in the same sentence
as Sturges is an ass.
Well, out of necessity, let me rephrase that:
Anyone who puts them on anything approaching the same comedic plane as
Sturges is an ass (and I LIKE "Lebowski").
More generally, the darker the film, the better the Coens are. I was
completely befuddled as to all the acclaim for Raising Arizona, for example. |
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Derek Janssen
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: a genre that you hate |
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Kingo Gondo wrote:
| Quote: |
(get hooked on genuine Preston Sturges, and you'll learn to
hate the Coen Bros.)
I don't hate the Coen Bros., but anyone who puts them in the same sentence
as Sturges is an ass.
Well, out of necessity, let me rephrase that:
Anyone who puts them on anything approaching the same comedic plane as
Sturges is an ass (and I LIKE "Lebowski").
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Let's rephrase that even further:
Anyone who thinks the Coens even *know* anything about Sturges dialogue,
just because they'd heard of all those real 30's-Hollywood people in
"Barton Fink" and put "O Brother, Where Art Thou" in one of their
titles, and tries to fill in any missing comedic-plane voids to try to
make the connection (or at least buys their wishful attempts to make
"Intolerable Cruelty" as a "homage"), is almost as big an ass as the
Bros. themelves. :)
Derek Janssen (if Sturges won't remake "Lebowski", let's not have the
Coens remake Alec Guinness comedies)
ejanss1@verizon.net |
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